tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post6667194727661707346..comments2024-03-09T03:49:50.699-05:00Comments on Your Critic is in Another Castle: The Gamer's Gaze, part 2K. Coxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06554183349391372039noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-17510121563308005062011-12-05T10:20:13.164-05:002011-12-05T10:20:13.164-05:00That's really interesting! Thanks for the tip...That's really interesting! Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure if any of my grad school professors even knew that one. (If they did, they certainly didn't convey it...)K. Coxhttp://www.your-critic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-31276022812991114452011-12-04T09:35:35.309-05:002011-12-04T09:35:35.309-05:00Great article. Quick correction though: Alfred Hit...Great article. Quick correction though: Alfred Hitchcock didn't invent it. That perspective was first used in the 1910 Australian bushranger film "Moonlite".TimothyRyannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-82138363631438963622011-12-04T09:22:24.928-05:002011-12-04T09:22:24.928-05:00Great article. Quick correction though: Alfred Hit...Great article. Quick correction though: Alfred Hitchcock didn't invent it. That perspective was first used in a 1910 Australian bushranger film called Moonlite.Gilt Funkhttp://twitter.com/GiltFunknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-49099023119800229802011-06-30T23:28:14.672-04:002011-06-30T23:28:14.672-04:00when I can see the person who I "am," I ...<i>when I can see the person who I "am," I don't have to face the <br />disconnect of that viewpoint not seeing the world the way I do. </i><br /><br />Yes, I think you are right! I hadn't thought about it that way before, but it makes sense. Again referencing Bioshock, it really bothered me--to the point of distracting from the story-- for at least the first half of the game that I was being forced to play some random dude, and why couldn't I be a random woman instead? Of course it eventually became clear that I wasn't just some random dude, but that was well into the game, and I think it would have been less distracting if I could have *seen* the dude I was supposed to be.Pamhttp://desdenova.livejournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-91526596279678213342011-06-30T22:21:06.099-04:002011-06-30T22:21:06.099-04:00Ah, thanks. I see what you mean about the co-opte...Ah, thanks. I see what you mean about the co-opted male gaze (though I'm still not quite sure I understand what an inherently female gaze would look like).<br /><br />If you read <a href="http://www.gamefaqs.com/psp/925138-crisis-core-final-fantasy-vii/faqs/52715" rel="nofollow">the mails that you get as a part of the sidequest,</a> they don't seem to be designed to unsettle male fans or put female fans down for their benefit; there's definitely something there for female fans outside of the game as well as inside. It's just particularly unusual in terms of perspective, considering who the audience is playing as.<br /><br />And, yeah, from my experience, the JRPG genre is one of the very few whose most influential developers recognize and react to the interest of a female fan-base. Final Fantasy XIII definitely had a few good examples of that (even if it's unquestionably male gaze-y in other ways). On the other hand, I'm not sure how representative Square-Enix is of JRPG developers as a whole; a game company that keeps <a href="http://scalesoflibra.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/seph-statue.jpg" rel="nofollow">a life-sized nude statue of one of their most recognizable male villains</a> in their official store is probably fairly unusual even in Japan.Ikkinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-21726737162984922852011-06-30T16:19:47.517-04:002011-06-30T16:19:47.517-04:00I'm primarily a PC gamer (it's only been s...I'm primarily a PC gamer (it's only been since 2008 that I had consoles in the house at all), but actually I have the same disconnect that you do with first-person gaming. It's only since <i>Portal</i> and <i>Bioshock</i> that I've really been able to handle first-person games at all, and when I started playing <i>Fallout 3</i> I was just as likely to pick the third-person point of view at any given time.<br /><br />I tend to be more likely to "inhabit," as it were, a character that I can see. That doesn't mean I can <i>always</i> see the character, but in, say, <i>Fallout 3</i> or <i>New Vegas</i>, though I primarily explore and fight in first-person, I'm likely to switch back to third person every so often while wandering the Wasteland, as if to get my bearings. Though I also think, now that I'm sort of thinking aloud here, that part of that actually does relate to the "gaze" structure that I need to wrap up in the next post -- when I can see the person who I "am," I don't have to face the disconnect of that viewpoint not seeing the world the way I do. Whether it's a personalized character (my Shepard, my Courier) or a complete person who I'm just controlling (Solid Snake, or whoever), it's easier for me to accept the difference in their camera and my gaze when the two aren't one and the same. Hmm.<br /><br />The inside-the-suit part of <i>Bioshock</i> really, really bothered me. I had a strong and visceral displeasure with that chunk of the game, and the helmet is definitely a big part of why.K. Coxhttp://www.your-critic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-47388293325667626102011-06-30T16:13:16.342-04:002011-06-30T16:13:16.342-04:00I think I am unusual in this regard, but I tend to...I think I am unusual in this regard, but I tend to find the first-person perspective to be *less* immersive than a third-person one. The reason is, that while the FP "camera" takes the perspective of the player character's gaze, it's imperfect. There's no peripheral vision, and I can never get a feel for how the character is situated within his or her surroundings. With third-person, even though I am not looking through the character's eyes, I find it easier to imagine myself in their space, because I know what their space *is*. (This is probably why I do not really get into FP games--my perception clashes with the game designers' intentions.)<br /><br />Additional random thoughts:<br /><br />1) It's possible that if I played games on PC, with my face less than 2 feet from the screen, I wouldn't feel the same level of discomfort with the FP perspective? But when I'm sitting in my comfy chair and the TV is on the other side of the living room, it feels like I'm looking at the game world with blinders on.<br /><br />2) I recall, actually, that <i>Bioshock</i> has a level that doubles down on this effect, where the player character walks around in a diver helmet, and the viewable portion of the screen is an even smaller portion of the world than it had been previously.Pamhttp://desdenova.livejournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-41591499613501456372011-06-30T07:05:21.916-04:002011-06-30T07:05:21.916-04:00For summary of what I mean by that idea, see what ...For summary of what I mean by that idea, see what I just replied to RedJenny, above. ;)<br /><br />What a strange and interesting piece of sidequesting that is. I'm not sure what I think! It might just be to unsettle male players or make fun of female fans but you're right, it seems to be doing a bunch of things at once.<br /><br />Also now that you've made me think of it, I will actually say that if there's a female gaze to be found anywhere, I suspect you could find it in at least some more recent jRPGs. I'm having trouble remembering all of FF13 (husband played it, I kept up unwelcome running commentary on how little sense that game makes) but if I'm remembering it accurately then I think at least some scenes would qualify.K. Coxhttp://www.your-critic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-65051686678797710132011-06-30T06:58:37.740-04:002011-06-30T06:58:37.740-04:00Writing about the female gaze would be another rea...Writing about the female gaze would be another really long post. I may do it eventually but today isn't the day, especially as if it exists at all in video games (and it might), it's a distinct minority.<br /><br />What I mean about a co-opted male gaze, though, is something you see most visibly in, say, parodies. When the camera behaves at a guy the same way it would behave at a girl -- only because it's a parody (I can think of a scene in one of the <i>Austin Powers</i> movies that goes this way), it's meant to be funny or jarring that a man gets this treatment that's so default for women.<br /><br />So there are times, particularly but not limited to in comedies, where everything just flat-out inverts. When the camera uncritically switches sides, as it were, but it's still looking at men the way that "men" (i.e. the male gazer, not necessarily any actual man) look at women, not the way that "women" (the female gazer, not necessarily any actual woman) would look at men.K. Coxhttp://www.your-critic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-88563104090530834322011-06-30T02:30:55.899-04:002011-06-30T02:30:55.899-04:00It might be hard to argue about a movie you haven&...It might be hard to argue about a movie you haven't seen, but I'd be interested to find out more about what the difference is between a legitimate female gaze and a co-opted male gaze, in general.<br /><br />And if beefcake alone doesn't subvert the male gaze, how about something like <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5kZgN5t-k&feature=related" rel="nofollow">the optional fan club sidequest from Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII,</a> where the player is offered direct access to female-targeted fan club newsletters for four of the most important male characters... through the (presumably straight) male player character's inbox. As the PC himself has little reason to be interested in the scent of Sephiroth's hair, the letters seem to be directed at a female audience (though the filter of the male PC probably complicates things somewhat).Ikkinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-53104043549102285142011-06-29T20:16:41.959-04:002011-06-29T20:16:41.959-04:00I don't think the new girl raunch culture is a...I don't think the new girl raunch culture is any less authentic or more the<br />result of advertising/commercial culture than traditional laddie<br />raunchiness.RedJennyhttp://unwarr.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-2575356134193102022011-06-29T19:59:45.212-04:002011-06-29T19:59:45.212-04:00This is where it gets into really tricky territory...This is where it gets into really tricky territory, actually, because then there's the question of: is that an actual "female gaze," or would it be a female co-opting of the male gaze? And are those the same thing?<br /><br />(I'd be inclined to argue "the latter" and "no," in that order, but I certainly won't argue it about a movie I haven't seen.)K. Coxhttp://www.your-critic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-80882459949164605922011-06-29T17:52:46.057-04:002011-06-29T17:52:46.057-04:00From the teenage girls I know I'm expecting an...From the teenage girls I know I'm expecting an imminent explosion of female gaze oriented pornography and pseudo-pornography (stuff with Taylor Lautner shirtless in it). They take at least as much pride in being raunchy as boys do. RedJennyhttp://unwarr.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-76618966605999420892011-06-29T13:09:58.332-04:002011-06-29T13:09:58.332-04:00Thanks. :)
I'm not sure I'll ever be able...Thanks. :)<br /><br />I'm not sure I'll ever be able to stomach <i>Twlight</i> long enough to find out, haha. Though media with a female gaze do exist. That's something I hope to be able to get into a little bit when I wrap this one up.K. Coxhttp://www.your-critic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-91429675515632588622011-06-29T13:08:32.775-04:002011-06-29T13:08:32.775-04:00I wanted you to know I quite like this, though I h...I wanted you to know I quite like this, though I have nothing particular to say about it. <br /><br />I haven't watched the Twilight movies, but I am told that they have something of a female gaze to them.DoctorJaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-886868484666652260.post-39487868093276634822011-06-29T10:25:23.336-04:002011-06-29T10:25:23.336-04:00I was just reading a post by Chris Bateman that co...I was just reading a <a href="http://blog.ihobo.com/2011/06/toy-view-and-doll-view-in-videogames.html" rel="nofollow">post</a> by Chris Bateman that compares first-person and third-person cameras to playing with toys vs. playing with dolls. It's a tangent to what you're talking about here, but it might be an interesting tangent, given all the cultural implications of dolls. Linehttp://linehollis.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com